Very good post on when to take social security at Ms. Liz Money Matters.
Very good post on when to take social security at Ms. Liz Money Matters.
Was listening to the Stacking Benjamins podcast this morning and they had an interesting bit of trivia.
Apparently, July was the lowest amount of trading within existing accounts for 401Ks/403bs/IRAs. What this basically meant is that folks were not re-balancing their investment accounts (selling their high winners and buying losers to get the allocations back in line).
Those that were trading were selling mostly out of bonds and into foreign stocks and S&P 500 – which has been the big winners over the last 6 months. In other words, they were selling low and buying high!
While I only rebalance 2x a year (Jan & July), I definitely trade to get back into my allocation, selling high and buying low.
What do you do when you make trades within your account?
Mr. 39 months
Guest post from Debbie M at the website Early Retirement Extreme
Good article on how she is breaking down her expected spending and how she plans to get there. Great to see folks showing how they can retire on less than $1M (which seems to be everyone’s drop dead amount in the mainstream media).
Go Debbie Go!
In line with my previous post, I have noticed a lot of comments and articles on the FIRE blogs lately about what folks plan to do (or are doing) once they achieve financial independence. They often follow a pattern of travel and doing projects/tasks that you put off because you didn’t have the time. This typically occupies folks for the first 12-24 months once they “retire” and then the hard part comes in.
Some folks like “Mr. Retire by 40” turned into the stay-at-home dad, while his wife continued to work. His wife enjoys her job, so they’ll keep at this for some time before they both retire. In the meantime, he takes care of their child, travels in the summer, and continues his work on his blog and other activities.
Others, like Mz Liz or ESI money have taken up counseling folks on financial independence, investing, and how to financially improve their lives. They have taken something that they are good at, have a passion for, and sought to “give back” to the community.
Still, for many others enroute to financial independence, the question remains of how we are going to fill our time once we have so much of it to fill.
For me, I know that I will need to find something to occupy my time, due to my mindset. I’ve been a “go getter” all my life, rising through the corporate ranks. I don’t see myself “kicking back.” My wife says our vacations are always busy, going from place to place, always on the move. My “retirement” will probably be the same. I have a couple of things which can occupy me for the first 12-18 months (finish the Appalachian Trail hike, road trips throughout the US, visiting family and friends, etc.) – but eventually I will need something to occupy my time.
Right now, I’m looking at several options:
Retirement Manifesto has article on UnRetirement in reference to this
Of course, something else may pop its head up, so we will see.
What are you thinking of doing once you are free?
Mr. 39 months.
Many of the folks in the financial independence community get all “fired up” about being able to retire early and/or chart their own path through life. It can be thrilling to look forward to, and as you get closer, the excitement builds. Eventually you reach that date, and suddenly your whole life changes!
What many folks don’t talk about is some of the potential psychological pitfalls that might pop up when you reach that glorious date.
For many of the baby boom generation (I’m the last year of that group, born in 1964), we have identified ourselves by our work. We start conversations with folks and ask “so what do you do?” Our social circle and lives revolve around the people we work with, and even our conversations at home with our loved ones often times involve work related issues and “do you know what Sheila did today?” kind of conversations. Then suddenly, when you retire early, that is gone.
My sister-in-law is like that; she has more than enough to retire and wants to move out of her current home (too much for her to keep up). Yet she continues to work at her job and commute an hour to work each way because that is what she knows, that is where her social circle lies, and she doesn’t have much to do at home (she is working on developing hobbies and a support group, but it’s difficult). Most of her family lives away from her (we are 2+ hours away) so she doesn’t have that option either.
I think the following generations (millennials, Gen X, etc.) have a better work/life attitude, and often don’t suffer from this as much. I think they also are more open to retiring early, as their lives don’t revolve around work, and they seek other activities to fulfill them, rather than climbing the corporate ladder (much to the chagrin of managers of my generation).
So what do you do when you retire early, and find that people your age are still working, that there is nobody to “hang out with” during the day, and where the thing you have held out as your “value” all your life is suddenly not there? It can be the cause of some serious psychological distress.
I’m starting to deal with some of this now. While I am still 35 months away (getting there!) from financial independence, it is starting to hit me. What am I going to do with my free time? While I have some travel goals that will probably take up a lot of my time for the first couple of years that will eventually fade. My circle of friends (like most folks as they get older) has shrunk. When my wife and I recently helped a friend clear out her dad’s basement after his death, my wife and I noted that we were really the only ones left in our circle of friends that could be considered “mobile” and capable of helping folks move (Many of our friends have health related issues).
Recently there was an article on folks who don’t have a spouse, children or caregiver, and what they should do as they age While my wife and I have each other, I can see the wisdom of some of the advice even for us.
I hope everyone considers how their financial independence will affect their lives, and builds a life they can look forward to!
Mr. 39 months.
Like many FIRE folks, we realized that being frugal was the primary path toward financial independence.
ESI money has a good article up on that today.
Mr Freaky Frugal and I discovered we are pretty close to each other in the Philly area.
Wondering if other folks are out there who might want to get together for a meetup?
The cheese steaks await!
Mr. 39 months
Well, my investments, like many folks, have nose-dived a bit since the start of the month. While the S&P 500, and most of my index funds have stayed even, my dividend portfolios are down about 2% so far. Remember, this is my “fun money” accounts where I tried to purchase bonds, stocks and REITs to generate maximum dividends. It seems like I have been shoveling money into these all year, only to have the market eat the money up by the time the month ends.
Now granted, 50% of these accounts are in bonds, and the rising interest rate environment has not done me a lot of favors here. In addition, the rising interest rates and the retail meltdown have punished REITs in a major way (or at least some REITs). Still, even though I have some explanation, it still makes me unhappy.
Yet I intend to keep with the plan I laid out, investing in dividend paying assets, and using my monthly funds and quarterly dividends to reinvest in the assets necessary to reach a 50% bonds/25% REITs/25% dividend stocks setup.
That is why I chose the title, stick-to-it-ism. There are always times in your push towards financial independence when your direction appears to be going nowhere (or potentially backward). Folks in 2007 and 2008 were double-paying their mortgage down on their house, only to see its value crash down and lose all the value that they had paid into it. Many home prices are only now getting back to where they were, ten years later. Some aren’t even there.
Still, by paying down the mortgage, getting rid of any remaining debt, and continuing to save, most FIRE folks find themselves in better shape now than they were before the crash nine years ago. That is because the concepts and principles we follow are timeless, and in the long run, they are bound to place us in a better position. We just have to have the “stick-to-it attitude” that lets us keep working on it, even during the times it doesn’t seem to help.
So how about you? What have you done to “stay on target” as you move towards independence?
Mr. 39 months
May 2, 2018
Okay, as I get more information, I continually have to look at adjusting my draw down plan – even as I hit 26 months to go. If you remember from my previous draw down update, the desire of Mrs. 39 Months to continue working, combined with the $64K limit to income for maintaining health subsidies had put me in a bit of a quandary. How do I match my spending to the need for health care? Spend too much, and I end up needing an additional $12K a year.
Well, I got a bid of a surprise with one of my company retirement accounts a week ago, which meant that I would be paying a large lump sum when I left the company (instead of being able to draw it out over time). However, this meant that the remaining funds were “post tax” and thus could be used without endangering me going over the $64K limit. Sweet!
So, based on that, updates on my current investments and plans for deposits over next 26 months, here is what I am looking at:
As you can see, I’m actually in pretty good shape. Current plan:
Note: all growth, expense and investments assume a 3% inflation rate.
Overall, I’m more confident now that I was a couple of months ago (even with the market not going anywhere). I could conceivably take a few months off my count and go earlier, but I don’t want to do that just yet.
How have your plans changed?
Original Draw Down Plan: June 2017
Several FIRE-related blogs (see below) have started a blog chain on how they are/plan to draw down their savings over their retirement. There are an infinite number of ways to do this, and a lot of its based on your own particular issues/resources.
It’s a topic that isn’t covered very much, and when I stumbled onto it today, I read just about every link I could.
I thought I’d join the chain and list my plan.
Expected resources at time of retirement (July 2020)
** My company allows you to “defer” income from work (i.e. don’t get paid it) until a later date, up to a certain percentage. Once you leave the company, you can take it as a lump sum or as regular monthly payments over a 5 year span. You pay taxes on it as you are paid it. In the meantime, you can invest it just like a 401K
Plan is to take out $72,000 a year/$6,000 a month. We will draw this back the equivalent when we start taking social security in 2024 (Mrs. 39 months) and 2031 (Mr. 39 months). I’ve used the FireCalc to determine that, even without social security, we have over a 90% chance to go till 95, so Social Security is a bonus here.
Overall, we could retire right now if I had confidence that Social Security (or at least 75% of Social Security ) would be there for us. I just don’t know, so I intend to work till July 2020 (Independence day!) to make sure we will be OK no matter what.
More Withdrawal Strategies
Here are more retirement strategies from the PF blogger community. Some of these are much more detailed than mine. Check them out!
Anchor: Physician On Fire: Our Drawdown Plan in Early Retirement
Link 1: The Retirement Manifesto: Our Retirement Investment Drawdown Strategy
Link 2: OthalaFehu: Retirement Master Plan
Link 3: Plan.Invest.Escape: Drawdown vs. Wealth Preservation in Early Retirement
Link 4: Freedom Is Groovy: The Groovy Drawdown Strategy
Link 5: The Green Swan: The Nastiest, Hardest Problem In Finance: Decumulation
Link 6: My Curiosity Lab: Show Me The Money: My Retirement Drawdown Plan
Link 7: Cracking Retirement: Our Drawdown Strategy
Link 8: The Financial Journeyman: Early Retirement Portfolio & Plan
Link 9: Retire by 40: Our Unusual Early Retirement Withdrawal Strategy
Mr. 39 months
I have been asked occasionally why I chose the picture at the top of the blog, William Trego’s “March to Valley Forge.” It’s a picture of a key point in America’s war for Independence, created in 1883.
The oil painting was painted by Trego in Philadelphia in 1883 and exhibited at the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts, where he studied for three years under Thomas Eakins. It is made even more impressive by the fact that Trego’s hands were nearly paralyzed – possibly from polio – at the time that he painted it, forcing him to hold a paintbrush with one hand while guiding it with the other. Trego’s inspiration for the painting was a passage from Washington Irving’s 19th century biography “Life of Washington”: “Sad and dreary was the march to Valley Forge, uncheered by the recollection of any recent triumph. . . Hungry and cold were the poor fellows who had so long been keeping the field . . . provisions were scant, clothing was worn out, and so badly were they off for shoes, that the footsteps of many might be tracked in blood.”
While I don’t place my efforts anywhere near on par with the struggles at Valley Forge, I do want to point out that getting to financial independence is a struggle.
As I said in my earlier posts, I really didn’t get the FIRE “bug” until I hit 36. I lost a tremendous amount of time and wealth accumulation in the 14 years from graduating till then. When I talk with college students and emphasize starting off the bat with savings, I hit them with the chart below. It shows three options:
|Graduate A||Graduate B||Graduate C|
|Age||Investment||Value @10%||Investment||Value @10%||Investment||Value @10%|
|22||$ 5,000||$ 5,000||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|23||$ 5,000||$ 10,500||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|24||$ 5,000||$ 16,550||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|25||$ 5,000||$ 23,205||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|26||$ 5,000||$ 30,526||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|27||$ 5,000||$ 38,578||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|28||$ 5,000||$ 47,436||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|29||$ 5,000||$ 57,179||$ –||$ –||$ –||$ –|
|30||$ 5,000||$ 67,897||$ 5,000||$ 5,000||$ –||$ –|
|31||$ –||$ 74,687||$ 5,000||$ 10,500||$ –||$ –|
|32||$ –||$ 82,156||$ 5,000||$ 16,550||$ –||$ –|
|33||$ –||$ 90,371||$ 5,000||$ 23,205||$ –||$ –|
|34||$ –||$ 99,409||$ 5,000||$ 30,526||$ –||$ –|
|35||$ –||$ 109,349||$ 5,000||$ 38,578||$ –||$ –|
|36||$ –||$ 120,284||$ 5,000||$ 47,436||$ 11,500||$ 11,500|
|37||$ –||$ 132,313||$ 5,000||$ 57,179||$ 11,500||$ 24,150|
|38||$ –||$ 145,544||$ 5,000||$ 67,897||$ 11,500||$ 38,065|
|39||$ –||$ 160,098||$ 5,000||$ 79,687||$ 11,500||$ 53,372|
|40||$ –||$ 176,108||$ 5,000||$ 92,656||$ 11,500||$ 70,209|
|41||$ –||$ 193,719||$ 5,000||$ 106,921||$ 11,500||$ 88,730|
|42||$ –||$ 213,091||$ 5,000||$ 122,614||$ 11,500||$ 109,102|
|43||$ –||$ 234,400||$ 5,000||$ 139,875||$ 11,500||$ 131,513|
|44||$ –||$ 257,840||$ 5,000||$ 158,862||$ 11,500||$ 156,164|
|45||$ –||$ 283,624||$ 5,000||$ 179,749||$ 11,500||$ 183,280|
|46||$ –||$ 311,987||$ 5,000||$ 202,724||$ 11,500||$ 213,108|
|47||$ –||$ 343,185||$ 5,000||$ 227,996||$ 11,500||$ 245,919|
|48||$ –||$ 377,504||$ 5,000||$ 255,795||$ 11,500||$ 282,011|
|49||$ –||$ 415,254||$ 5,000||$ 286,375||$ 11,500||$ 321,712|
|50||$ –||$ 456,780||$ 5,000||$ 320,012||$ 11,500||$ 365,384|
|51||$ –||$ 502,458||$ 5,000||$ 357,014||$ 11,500||$ 413,422|
|52||$ –||$ 552,703||$ 5,000||$ 397,715||$ 11,500||$ 466,264|
|53||$ –||$ 607,974||$ 5,000||$ 442,487||$ 11,500||$ 524,390|
|54||$ –||$ 668,771||$ 5,000||$ 491,735||$ 11,500||$ 588,330|
|55||$ –||$ 735,648||$ 5,000||$ 545,909||$ 11,500||$ 658,662|
|56||$ –||$ 809,213||$ 5,000||$ 605,500||$ 11,500||$ 736,029|
|57||$ –||$ 890,134||$ 5,000||$ 671,050||$ 11,500||$ 821,132|
|58||$ –||$ 979,148||$ 5,000||$ 743,155||$ 11,500||$ 914,745|
|59||$ –||$ 1,077,063||$ 5,000||$ 822,470||$ 11,500||$ 1,017,719|
|60||$ –||$ 1,184,769||$ 5,000||$ 909,717||$ 11,500||$ 1,130,991|
|61||$ –||$ 1,303,246||$ 5,000||$ 1,005,689||$ 11,500||$ 1,255,590|
|62||$ –||$ 1,433,570||$ 5,000||$ 1,111,258||$ 11,500||$ 1,392,649|
|63||$ –||$ 1,576,927||$ 5,000||$ 1,227,383||$ 11,500||$ 1,543,414|
|64||$ –||$ 1,734,620||$ 5,000||$ 1,355,122||$ 11,500||$ 1,709,256|
|65||$ –||$ 1,908,082||$ 5,000||$ 1,495,634||$ 11,500||$ 1,891,681|
|66||$ –||$ 2,098,890||$ 5,000||$ 1,650,197||$ 11,500||$ 2,092,349|
|67||$ –||$ 2,308,779||$ 5,000||$ 1,820,217||$ 11,500||$ 2,313,084|
Notice how the person who started early and then stopped, still winds up with a lot more money than the one who waited, and then kept putting in. Also notice how much I have to contribute to “catch up”
I often see FIRE blogs that talk about their wonderful, frugal lifestyle, and I get it. I can see how being content with your life is a major point to make this work, and is a key part to happiness in life. I just want to make sure that everyone realizes that it is also a struggle against the current to make it happen, and it takes hard work and perseverance to be successful.
An interesting point. Washington and his army marched out of Valley Forge in June 1778, ready to continue the struggle. Roughly 39 months later, they (with the help of the French) were able to encircle Cornwallis in Yorktown, and after a siege, force his surrender – the final major battle in the war. After a long struggle, independence was gained!
I wish you luck on your journey.
Mr. 39 Months